I am sure people working in the developed world and fans of a very cheap carbon offset mechanism for developing countries will start to call you in sordid terms as Mr Laurent I am sure a PR staff who works uncovered for a US carbon traders TNC or IFF.You are just telling the truth about REDD and multilateral agencies such as UN-REDD, governments and polluters do not like it.
The fight will be hard but I think you are doing a very good effort to expose how tricky these consultations and mechanism is.

You comment that “another perspective is to be optimistic and that the minister was including indigenous peoples and their rights in his comments.” But to hold the belief that government ministers are including indigenous peoples and their rights although they mention none of the relevant words would be an extraordinary leap of faith. Especially given the context that Laurent points out, that would be panglossian, not optimistic.

I won’t be going to the RRI meeting on 6 April 2010, I’m afraid. I’m sure it will be interesting to hear and see indigenous peoples talking to representatives of the French and Norwegian governments (and I look forward to seeing the reports from the meeting), but it’s an NGO-organised meeting. The point is that indigenous peoples were excluded from the meeting in Paris.

How happily ignorant you show yourself to be, and I can only wonder whether you have ever been to this poor country, or to Gabon or anywhere else in the Congo sub-region.

I do not know what Gabonese minister Mbala might think about indigenous people, but our own minister, Mr Djombo, is clear: his family keeps them (Ba’Mbenjelle Pygmees) as SLAVES, see http://www.internationalreportingproject.org/stories/detail/506/

Meanwhile, people in the Likouala know that, though he has never admitted it, minister Djombo has interests in the areas biggest logging company, which has brought in 20 thousand immigrants to what used to be a village of 300.

So who do you think mr Djombo is talking about when he says that “Forest management must become participative, putting people who live off the forest at the heart of the program.”?

Whatever meeting is in London on April 6th, I am sure you will have lots to say about things you obviously know nothing about.

If you want to lecture about ‘realism’, Chris, try finding out what the reality is first.

I agree with you that you can interpret, “Forest management must become participative, putting people who live off the forest at the heart of the program.”

From one perspective, you could either be very cynical that this means enriching themselves and a bunch of loggers and not respecting the rights of indigenous peoples. Some may call that being realistic. Or, another perspective is to be optimistic and that the minister was including indigenous peoples and their rights in his comments.

I look forward to seeing you at the April 6th, RRI meeting being held in London where IPs will be meeting with Norwegian and French government representatives. We can discuss in further.

Cheers, Chris

“not enough money has been committed to the fight against deforestation – and they said the money earmarked so far should be funneled quickly to the relevant countries.

“They emphasized that the task at hand is enormous, and long-term. Forest management must become participative, putting people who live off the forest at the heart of the program, the ministers said.”

So, they are saying two things here:

1. They need large amounts of money to carry out the enormous task of fighting deforestation.
2. “Forest management must become participative, putting people who live off the forest at the heart of the program.”

The first is pretty clear. The second could mean almost anything. The manager of a logging company could be described as living off the forest, as could the manager of an oil palm plantation or a pulp mill. As I pointed out in the post above, “the rights of Indigenous Peoples and local communities are rendered invisible by the world’s need for forests as stores of carbon.” The key word is “rights”. The ministers did not mention rights – at least as reported by Associated Press.

Deforestation conference to turn plans to action
By ELAINE GANLEY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

PARIS — French President Nicolas Sarkozy will open a daylong conference Thursday of some 40 nations to start turning plans into action to save the world’s forests and help rein in the noxious gases blamed for climate change.

Ministers from countries of the Amazon and Congo river basins and Indonesia – whose massive forests, most at risk, are at the heart of efforts to end deforestation – were among those attending the one-day conference. A follow-up meeting is scheduled for May in Oslo, Norway.

“The forest in danger. Massive planet-wide destruction continues,” France’s influential environment minister Jean-Louis Borloo said to reporters Wednesday ahead of the conference.

The conference, with closed-door working groups, is looking to translate measures adopted at the U.N. climate summit in Copenhagen in December into concrete mechanisms – and funds.

World Bank representatives and lending nations were also attending the meeting.

To simply inventory the forests – counting the fauna and flora – is a necessary but hugely expensive “mammoth project,” said Henri Djombo, the Republic of Congo’s sustainable development and environment minister.

Deforestation, which involves the burning of trees to clear land and the natural rotting of trees, is thought to account for up to 20 percent of carbon dioxide sent into the atmosphere – as much as that emitted by all the world’s cars, trucks, trains, planes and ships combined. Reducing deforestation is one of the most effective ways to reduce the emissions responsible for climate change.

Indonesia and Brazil are the world’s third- and fourth-largest carbon emitters, after China and the United States. Deforestation for logging, growing crops or making room for cattle grazing, are the prime causes.

A plan to help protect tropical forests by having rich nations pay the countries concerned fell apart in Copenhagen, though the forest program, known as REDD – for Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Degradation – survived.

A portion of the $30 billion that world leaders agreed to spend over the next three years to help poor nations could go toward the forest program. World leaders agreed to spend a total of $100 billion by 2020.

Finding mechanisms to disburse those funds quickly and fairly is among the tasks at the conference.

Djombo and two other African ministers present with Borloo on Wednesday were unanimous that not enough money has been committed to the fight against deforestation – and they said the money earmarked so far should be funneled quickly to the relevant countries.

They emphasized that the task at hand is enormous, and long-term. Forest management must become participative, putting people who live off the forest at the heart of the program, the ministers said.

Gabon’s environment minister, Martin Mabala, said the world and indigenous populations need to view the forest differently. For example, he said the term “wood cutter” should be replaced by the term “forest manager.”

“Forests are a planetary asset and no longer the concern of individual countries,” Mabala said. “This is the business of all humanity.”

Include the whole quote so people can get the context, don’t just cherry pick to present the angle you want. Finishing Mabala’s quote actually makes him look at more progressive than you make him out to be. Below delivers the context around the cherry picked quotes you used:

“They emphasized that the task at hand is enormous, and long-term. Forest management must become participative, putting people who live off the forest at the heart of the program, the ministers said.

Gabon’s environment minister, Martin Mabala, said the world and indigenous populations need to view the forest differently. For example, he said the term “wood cutter” should be replaced by the term “forest manager.”

“Forests are a planetary asset and no longer the concern of individual countries,” Mabala said. “This is the business of all humanity.”"